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The essence of Perfection. What is it that makes that Surreal Sound?
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New to Voodoo

Post by Newbie » Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:44 pm

Greetings Audio Enthusiast!

I am new to the audio enhancement biz and am in need of some expert opinions. I have a un modified Kenwood TS-850SAT and just have acquired a rack of kool Behringer gadgets. I am at the stage of purchasing the microphone and would like to ask the group for recommendations. I am not doing the SSB thing, sticky AM. I am tinkering with the solid state equipment too see if it can compare in anyway to the old tube boat anchor Johnson’s, Collins, etc.

I run amplifiers that do have blowers so please keep this in mind when suggesting a microphone.

I appreciate any advice offered,

Regards,

Chris

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Big Decision

Post by Voodoo Guru » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:07 am

Hmmmm Chris....

That is a tricky question.
It all depends on How you will be using the rig, and what you want the end result to be.

We think with the equipment you have and the conditions you described, the best choice would be a Dynamic Microphone.

For the Price and the Performance, we think the best one would be the Heil Sound PR-30 Microphone.

http://www.heilsound.com/amateur/pr-30.htm

Another good choice but more expensive would be the RE-20 or RE-27 from Electrovoice.

http://www.electrovoice.com/electrovoic ... endocument

These are just our opinions.
There are allot of Mics out there. Some cheaper, some more expensive.
That is a hard decision.
Good Luck.
Last edited by Voodoo Guru on Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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microphone choice

Post by Newbie » Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:17 pm

Well I am looking for clean reproduction of my voice with a flat response so that the external Behringer processing equiptment can do its job. I want to see if I can fool the the big iron tube guys into thinking im running a great big boat anchore. I guess what Im looking for a that old fashion warm fussy rich tube sound. That smooth bassy sound.

So why PR-30 and not the PR-40?

Chris

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Post by !KANT » Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:22 pm

Welcome to the VooDOO Lounge.....enjoy the adventure--and torture :wink: 8)

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Deep Voice

Post by Voodoo Guru » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:12 am

Well, like we said before, it really depends on what your final goal will be.
If you have a deep voice and are going to operate fairly wide, full fidelity AM (8 - 12 Kc), then the PR40 would be a good choice. Using the extra low end will be balanced with the extra high end.
In order to take full advantage of this Mic and also the Audio Equipment, You really should think about feeding the Audio directly to the Balanced Modulator of the TS-850. Not to mention you will be able to get 100% modulation. If you don't, the restrictive nature of the Mic amp circuits in the TS-850 will limit the frequency response of the transmitted signal.

If you don't plan on modifying the TS-850, and are going to be operating at narrow 6kc AM, then the PR-30 would be a better choice as you won't be able to pass the lower frequencies the PR-40 would be able to give you thru the Mic Amp......if your voice is low enough to begin with.
Even if the Low freqencies would pass thru the Mic Amp Circuitry, at the narrow xmit bandwidth, the Audio would have too many lows compared to the highs. You would have to "EQ" the Lows out anyway.
Last edited by Voodoo Guru on Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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feeding the Audio directly to

Post by Newbie » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:36 am

Hi Voodoo Guru,

thanks for taking taking the time to answer my post. Well I am into this for the long haul and am willing to do or have done whatever it may take to sound the best I can possibly can. So you had mentioned that "You really should think about feeding the Audio directly to the Balanced Modulator of the TS-850", where do I find this mod? Is it a fairly difficult mod? Any other mods I should have done while I am at it? This is for AM I might ad. I know alot of you are working SSB, has anyone succefully done this mod on AM? Will it work the same on AM? I would assume it would.

Chris

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TS-850 Mods

Post by Voodoo Guru » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:15 pm

Well Chris,
There are 2 very important Mods that really need to be done to the TS-850 to really get the Hi Fidelity that this Rig can offer on RX and TX on both SSB and on AM.
W9AC, Paul was the main influence and designer of these Mods.
They were put on the following website for the masses to use:

http://www.directheli.com/ka0ka/

We have done them both to all our TS-850's.
One of which was devoted entirely to AM operation.

The RX IF Mod is a little complicated/tricky as it involves changing allot of surface mount components (capacitors).
The Balanced Modulator Mod is pretty straight forward and simple.
The IF Board has to be removed for either Mod.

It is well worth the trouble.
Last edited by Voodoo Guru on Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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feeding the Audio directly to the Balanced Modulator

Post by Newbie » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:00 am

Your right, the tx mod seems pretty strait forward. No looking forward at all to opening a virgin 850, but its a situation of too Voodo or not to Voodoo!

Chris

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Post by !KANT » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:52 am

Well, I've heard stations with stock 850/100 setups and they sound good. But compared to stations that have gone ahead and performed the modification, they sound marely decent. The modification allows for much better/clearer/more detailed audio. I've recorded stations with and without mods and there was a defining difference. It's up to you on where you rather be on the pole. :idea:

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Post by dg7lan » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:28 pm

i have done the rx mod and must say, it looks harder than it is. you can bridge over most of the capacitors. easy going. just be carefull and watch every step you make. compare with tylers pictures and READ THE TEXT ON TOP OF THE PICTURES cause there are hidden informations :) you can not get from the text on the main page. do it, like mike said, it´s really worth it. your rx will sound absolutely different

regards,
andy
...if in doubt, increase bandwidth

Newbie

rx mod

Post by Newbie » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:06 am

Good looking out Andy,

I would have never know about the info associated withe the pics.

THANKS!

Newbie

RX MOD

Post by Newbie » Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:14 am

I was checking out the RX Mod at KA0KA web site and was curious if perhaps im missing somthing. He says to place a jumper wire from pin 2 to pin 2 of the optional 455 kHz 500 Hz filter pins? Thats it? Seems too simple.

I am going to perform both the TX and RX mods on his page. Is there any other mods I should do while im at it? Im going into this radio once and once only. Im having a hard enough time as it is getting enough "uevos" to open her up.

Chris

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Several RX Mods

Post by Voodoo Guru » Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:23 am

Well,
There are actually 2 RX Mods.

The one your talkin about, the 455 Filter Mod is also called the "Silverwire Mod". That opens the 455 IF completly up...no Filter at all. The only IF Filter will be the 8.83 that you have selected. This is best for AM Reception, although we also use it on SSB.

The other Mod actually changes the Frequency Response of the Receiver Audio. It Makes it Flat from about 20cps to around 5.5Kc.
This is the mod were you have to change the SMD Coupling Caps on the IF Board. This is the difficult one.
We found that actually changing the original SMD Caps with High Quality SMD Caps in lieu of strapping them with Tantalum Caps makes for better Frequency Response. Its not a real big difference...but there is one. There has been some debate over this, but thats just our opinion. Depends on how Anal Retentive you want to be about the Audio! Ha Ha Ha!!

We would definitely do the Balanced Modulator Mod...without question.

You should also check your PLL Voltages according to the Service Manual. Especially at TP2 for Local L02 VCO. This 5.0 Volt setting is critical. If it is out of specs, You will get a "Raspy" Recieve Audio.
Andy just ran into this.

You can read about it on this website:

http://n6tr.jzap.com/850repair.html

Other than that,..We can't think of anything else.
Just be sure to TRIPLE check everything you do.

If you decide to change the SMD Caps instead of strapping them, We can give you some tips on accomplishing it with minimal damage to the Circuit Board. But if you have never played with surface mount components before....be warned....it is VERY challenging and sometimes frustrating. You need a very good soldering iron with a micro tip, allot of solder braid, and a BUNCH of Patience.
Last edited by Voodoo Guru on Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Newbie

RX mod

Post by Newbie » Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:00 am

Well Voodoo Guru, I was afraid you would say that, LOL. Fear of the unknown is overwhelming me. Since KA0KA only mentioned the “silver wire” mod and the Balanced Modulator mod under the AM section of his web page, I assumed the Frequency Response mod was not necessary. I was crossing my fingers hoping some one would reply that I didnt need to perform that mod for AM. Yikes! I am definitely doing the Balanced Modulator Mod as you mentioned, I will have to contemplate the freq. response mod. The TS-850 I have is immaculate, just like the day it came off the show room floor with not a single screw driver laid upon it, ever. It would seem that all our labors are in vain if other stations don’t even have the receiving capabilities to appreciate our improved Audio.

Chris

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Post by dg7lan » Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:42 am

hey chris, do it.. at least the receiver mod..

yea mike, shitty voltage setting..did i mention, that i hit the txco by accident? :-) was a good chance to get the trx closer to the frequency...i don´t care abt the display but it feels better now anyway

i don´t know about the balance mod stuff.. i rarely use am and i´m afraid i have to feed different inputs on the radio every time i use a different mode, havn´t i?

and i still need fm causa meet the feebles on cb :) but don´t tell anybody

mr. allthemodsdoneexceptbalancemod andy
...if in doubt, increase bandwidth

Newbie

Plugged into the Matrix

Post by Newbie » Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:59 pm

Well I am all plugged in and ready to enter the matrix. I haven’t done the mods yet but I will be performing open heart surgery here pretty soon. Meanwhile I am overly anxious to start playing with all the bells and whistles. However I have no clue what any of these high tech little boxes do. I have found on various web sites showing programming parameters to get me into the ball park. My question is,

1. If I follow the programming suggestions out there that is mostly for SSB, will they work also for AM as well?

2. After I do the TX direct feed mod will I have to change the settings again?

3. If I program now and test into a dummy load and later decide to get on the air and run some watts, will I have to reprogram again?

4. Where is the best place to start first with setting up each piece in the rack?


I’m just wanting to get in the ball park, once I’m close I can deviate and fine tune the audio im looking for. Any suggestions?\

Chris

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Re: Plugged into the Matrix

Post by Voodoo Guru » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:18 pm

OK Chris,
pwrsource.com wrote: 1. If I follow the programming suggestions out there that is mostly for SSB, will they work also for AM as well?
It will be close. There will be some differences. Most people run 2 filter programs, one for SSB and one for AM.
pwrsource.com wrote: 2. After I do the TX direct feed mod will I have to change the settings again?
Yes...definitly. The biggest difference was the Low End. Seems that when in AM the Lows were tranmited more Pronounced thru the balanced moduator. Had to cut them compared to SSB.
pwrsource.com wrote: 3. If I program now and test into a dummy load and later decide to get on the air and run some watts, will I have to reprogram again?
That depends. If you dont do the IF Board mod, the TX monitor will not be true. What you here in the monitor and what you xmit will be different. Even with the mod, it is best to monitor yourself with a 2nd receiver to set up your audo.
pwrsource.com wrote: 4. Where is the best place to start first with setting up each piece in the rack?
Thats the BIG question...it'll take some time to list all that. Best to do that in the mornin when our heads are clear....too much beer tonight.
Last edited by Voodoo Guru on Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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plugged into the matrix

Post by Newbie » Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:07 am

Ok Voodoo Guru no worries and no hurry for answers. Sounds like I need to do the balance mod first. No use programming and then having to change everthing. Started reading the Behringer manuals, information overload. Andy your from over there, do you underdtand the manuals?

Like you Voodoo Guru me too, im going back to having my Becks and watching "Meet the Fockers".... Im out!

Chris

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Post by !KANT » Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:48 am

What's all this talk about beer??? :evil: ...DOOBIE IT UP BAAABYYYYYYY :twisted: --and that's the best time to get inside the rig for surgery :roll: :lol:

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Research...research...research

Post by Voodoo Guru » Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:58 pm

Well Chris, the best thing to do would be to gather intel and research...research...research!
There is ALLOT of info on initial setting up of those units on the internet.

The MIC2200 is perty straight forward. Just bring your Mic in on the Left Channel Input
1 ) If it is a Condensor Mic, you'll have to engage the "+48V" Phantom power switch. If not, be sure this pushbutton is off.
2 ) Make sure the "MIC/LNE" Pushbutton is pressed in for MIC.
3 ) The "Phase REV" pushbutton should be out.
4 ) The "LO CUT" pushbutton should be out.
5 ) The "EQ IN/OUT" pushbutton should be out.
6 ) Start the "MIC GAIN" Control around 25db. While you are talking into the Mic, turn up this control until you just start seeing the "clip" LED flicker, then turn the gain down until you DO NOT see the "CLIP" LED at all.
7 ) Turn the next "Hz Freq" control for the LO Cut to 12Hz (redundant because it is not engaged)
8 ) Turn the next "Hz Freq" control for the Par EQ to 400Hz (redundant because it is not engaged)
9 ) Turn the "OCTAVE BANDWIDTH" control to 0.7 (redundant because it is not engaged)
10 ) Turn the "DB LEVEL" control to 0db (redundant because it is not engaged)
11 ) Start the "DB OUTPUT" control at 0db. While you are talking into the mic, Turn the "DB OUTPUT" control to where the voice peaks are showing about a -3db on the output meter.

The -3db level (in leu of 0db) is what we have grown accustomed to using here...especially with digital equipment. We usually set ALL of our inputs/outputs to a -4 to -3db Level. You don't loose anything worth measuring of the S/N Ratio, and you have no worry of the dreaded "DIGI-WIGI Input Distortion", or engaging the automatic limiters in the units.

The DEQ2496 is a little more complicated. We have had one of these units since they first came out. But instead of rehashing what someone else has already put to paper...We'll give you some links to look at.

http://www.icycolors.com/nu9n/deq2496.html

http://www.k4qky.com/hamradio/audio.htm

Of course none of them advocate the use of Harmonix or VOODOO Audio!! Hi Hi!!
But, they give some really good information on getting it all together.
Once you do that...its just a matter of Tweakin the rascals to get the right sound your lookin fer. Trust me....it takes ALLOT of Tweakin!!
When you get it all together and get familiar with the controls...We'll give you some Top Secret VooDoo Info on that piece of equipment.
SSSSSsssshhhhhh.....its a secret.......

We don't have any information on the REV2496. We use the DSP2024P Virtualizer Pro for this function. The effect used here is called "Plating". This info is on this website also. Maybe someone else has some info on this one??

The EX3200 Setup and UDX Mod of course can be gotten off of this website.

Of Course we will always be here to steer you down the long lost and hopeless road of Deep, Rich, Silky-Smooth, Harmonix laden, Black Magic, Low End Audio!!

AKA......VOODOO AUDIO!!!!
Last edited by Voodoo Guru on Fri May 11, 2007 8:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
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