Behringer EX3200 Mod Questions

559Josh · Post by **559Josh** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:45 am

I keep hearing about these Mods...what are they? Where can I learn more?
Josh

Post by **Voodoo Guru** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:55 am

All the Mods and Modifications for the Behringer EX3200 can be found Here.
Enjoy!

http://www.wz5q.net/voodoo-labs/index/gearslutzmods.htm

559Josh · Post by **559Josh** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:55 am

I read 100% of BOTH articles and I have a couple Qs:

From the "EX3200 Setup" article...it appears that this only processes ONE channel...Do I need a 2nd channel for this to operate in True Stereo? If not, how does processing only 1 channel, produce STEREO? If this is the case, do I actually need a 2nd EX3200?

The Mod section states:
"None of the Multiband Processor Op Amps were changed because We don't use that portion of the unit."

If I wanted to "Upgrade" that section just in case I wanted to use it in the future, What other components would need to be changed? If ALL of the Coupling Caps, and Op Amps (AD823ARZ), how many of each...that way I can make one larger order instead of Mod-ing it again in the future.

Also, I found a 2200uF Cap with an identical Footprint as the 1800uF one listed...and a diff company that cut the total cost by 25% as compared to Digikey...AND...they had ALL of the parts IN-STOCK...Digikey has a 4-month lead-time on one of the items....and a 3-week lead-time on another of the items.

Post by **Voodoo Guru** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:20 pm

Great!!
We like to answer Q's!

From the "EX3200 Setup" article...it appears that this only processes ONE channel...Do I need a 2nd channel for this to operate in True Stereo? If not, how does processing only 1 channel, produce STEREO? If this is the case, do I actually need a 2nd EX3200?

Well as we said before, in our application we are using it in Mono.
The 'Daisy Chaining' of the 2ea channels adds harmonix in a phase relationship between the Fundamentals and each other, but only in mono per individual unit.
For a Stereo type application, we just run the EX3200 normally.
Yes you could try it by using 2ea of the EX3200 but we have never done it.

The Mod section states:
"None of the Multiband Processor Op Amps were changed because We don't use that portion of the unit."
If I wanted to "Upgrade" that section just in case I wanted to use it in the future, What other components would need to be changed? If ALL of the Coupling Caps, and Op Amps (AD823ARZ), how many of each...that way I can make one larger order instead of Mod-ing it again in the future.

We modify the entire unit now. We just haven't updated the webpage to reflect that.
The modifications make a phenomenal impact to the Multi-Band processor by the way.
ALL the Coupling caps are already identified in the page.
The amount of Op Amps will increase to 16ea.

Also, I found a 2200uF Cap with an identical Footprint as the 1800uF one listed...and a diff company that cut the total cost by 25% as compared to Digikey...AND...they had ALL of the parts IN-STOCK...Digikey has a 4-month lead-time on one of the items....and a 3-week lead-time on another of the items.

Sure, as long as the footprint is not any bigger.
It is already a tight fit with that, any bigger would not fit.
Another point must be made is that if they are not the Panasonic FC series (FM can be subbed for the Filter caps), then you wont be gaining much for your effort.
The FC and FM are very low ESR type Caps and work great with AC hince the good sound as Audio Coupling Caps and the use as Filter Caps.
So be sure they are not just low cost replacements.
There is a reason We use the Panasonics.
There Audio signature is very noticeable.
We have been noticing that Digikey has a lead time on the op amps, We've used Nework In One as a substitute.

Take Care!

559Josh · Post by **559Josh** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:28 pm

I looked at the PS Mod Pic and saw that the space was really tight...both in footprint & height...the cap I found was EXACTLY the same size, but had 22% more capacitance AND cost LESS!

idk, how much of a diff this would make considering that the 1800uF cap was already Over-kill...but we know in this specific application (Power Filtering), bigger IS better!

I have compared all of the Caps on a one-by-one basis...the ESRs of the Caps I found are ALL Better than the ones specified in the Panasonic Datasheets as are ALL of the Ripple Currents...what does the "FC" indicate and where can I find more info on exactly what advantages FC provides?

Thanks,
JSLM

559Josh · Post by **559Josh** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:32 pm

I guess having a Low Ripple Current is a BAD thing...just realized that one...

The #s were very comparable, but lower in the ones I found...I'm scouring the Panasonic site right now...

Post by **Voodoo Guru** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:22 pm

One thing must be said that was told to me years ago.
You have to judge by the resulting SOUND a modified component makes, not by its specs.
We use specs to get us close, then will test them using the most unique piece of test equipment We own....our ears.

Of course there are some other Coupling caps that would ultimately sound better, But cost is of course an issue.
For the money, the Panasonic FC are hard to beat for the cost to the Sonic Signature they give.

You could always use the Rubicon Blackgates or the Cardas Golden Reference, but were talking about some Major Scratch.

Which caps are you looking at, maybe We tried them already.
Take Care,

559Josh · Post by **559Josh** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:28 pm

I COMPLETELY understand where you're coming from as far as using our ears as the ultimate Judge of sonic performance...Spec-wise, it appears at a cursory glance that the FM series Caps by Panasonic actually outperform the FC series.

Gimme a sec & I'll list all the caps' info.

1 Q while I'm entering that info:
Was there a comparison trial with NO Changes to the Coupling Caps...only the PS Caps, Rect. Diodes, and the ICs?

Just wondering.
Josh

559Josh · Post by **559Josh** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:46 pm

100uF @ 25v Electrolytic = ILLINOIS CAPACITOR 107CKH025M

4.7uF @ 50v Electrolytic = UNITED CHEMI-CON SMG500ELL4R7ME11D

2.2uF @ 50v Electrolytic = ILLINOIS CAPACITOR 225CKH050M

47uF @ 50v Electrolytic = VISHAY SPRAGUE 515D476M050AA6AE3

10uF @ 50v Electrolytic = VISHAY SPRAGUE 515D106M050JA6AE3

2200uF @ 35v Electrolytic = UNITED CHEMI-CON ESMG350ELL222ML25S

AD823ARZ SMD Op Amp IC = ANALOG DEVICES AD823ARZ

600V 4A Hexfred Diode Rectifier = INTERNATIONAL RECTIFIER HFA04TB60PBF

559Josh · Post by **559Josh** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:51 pm

Is there anyone out there that is intersted in preforming this mod in the very near future who would like to combine our purchasing power & save some money?

The ICs are ~$1 cheaper EACH if we order 24+
I'm going to need 16...so that ~$17 savings on my end...of course, you'd experience similar savings...but there would be a slight delay as I'd have to ship your parts to you once they arrive...I'd be willing to cover USPS 1st Class Shipping costs or put that amount toward a faster delivery method if someone was interested in that.

I'm in Fresno, CA.

Josh

Post by **Voodoo Guru** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:59 pm

Yes, there was some testing.
The op amps were all changed and the Sonic Signature was incredible.
The Clarity was vividly apparent, as was the Low Frequency Shaping and Depth. The biggest difference was the purity of the Low Frequencies.
We tried many, many op amps and haven't found any that compare to these for that.
The Tone of the mids was brought out front and everything sounded more in balance.
The High Frequencies sounded more crystal and transparent.

The Coupling Caps were then Changed.
The entire Frequency Spectrum of the Audio sounded more realistic and was brought forward out from behind a veil. The clarity was improved even more.
There was allot more detail and presence too.

Then we changed the Power Supply Components.
This smoothed out the Low Frequencies even more.
It also quited the S/N ratio. and improved the overall dynamics of the audio.

Everything is cumulative.
It all adds up in the end!
Take Care,

559Josh · Post by **559Josh** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:01 pm

I didn't realize that we kinda hijacked the thread..can the moderator split this thread and place it in the proper category?
Thanks,
JSLM

559Josh · Post by **559Josh** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:02 pm

How many diff types/brands/models/etc of caps were tested in that phase of the process?

Post by **Voodoo Guru** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:03 pm

mmmmm....

Never tried the Illinois or the Chemi-Con caps.
No info for them.

But....
The Vishay-Spragues are just plain HORRID sounding.

Allot were tested, but mostly just the most popular ones we found people using on the other forums.

We liked the FC.

559Josh · Post by **559Josh** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:11 pm

Aren't Tantalum Caps usually much better than Aluminum and others?

Is this only true in Power Applications or is it also true in this Audio Application?

Josh

Post by **Voodoo Guru** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:55 pm

Tantalums????
Yuk Spit!!!!!!!!

Yes they are very good for Power Applications but should NEVER, EVER be used for any type of Audio Applications.
Especially for Bypass Caps.
They are very Tubey sounding on the Low Freqs, and shrill and brittle on the highs.
Very Evil things Tantalums!
Evil Evil Evil!!!

They are so rigid in there Polar-ness that they do not pass the AC of Audio very well at all.

Nasty things.

559Josh · Post by **559Josh** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:20 pm

OK...that makes sense...the stiffness of the cap is EXACTLY what makes Tantalum so good for applications...just NOT this application, I guess.

Just wondering.

Are there other members on this forum who live near Fresno? Do U know of anyone who'd be interested in a "Group Buy"...if for nothing else, the stuff besides the Panasonic FC Caps...We could save some significant money if there were 3 or 4 of us...

Josh