"use radio in garden" LOL, yur out of control!
Need sum mo advice. I have a TS-850 and need something to monitor my audio. Should I go with the KENWOOD SM 220 STATION MONITOR? Or is there something out there better but within the same price range?
By the way, is carpal tunnel normal from playing with all these knobs?! Nevermind, that question didnt sound right.
Chris
Station Monitor or O-Scope?
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Voodoo Guru
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o-scope
Well.....
It again depends on what your after.
Being that you will mostly be operating in the AM Mode, it is almost a must, to have some kind of O-Scope to monitor your Transmission.
The SM220 is a very good station monitor, and with the band scope adapter it makes for more fun.
We use the SM230 here. It has a built in band scope, plus a 10Mhz oscilloscope input......but they are very expensive.
These Kenwood units look great with the TS-850s and will connect to it no problem.
But these units are limited. They offer only basic monitoring of your transmitted waveform (you can't monitor "Trapezoidal Patterns" for audio as there is no Horizontal input). They do not have the versatility that a devoted Lab Type Oscilloscope can give you.
You can get a very nice O-scope for the same price you can get the Station Monitors for if you shop around. Of course it won't match the Kenwood Ts-850s, and you will have to learn the basics of adjusting the settings on the o-scope, and build or buy a sampling unit to get the signal to the scope.
So......if all your after is something to show your waveform to make sure your not over modulating.....and you are not going to use it for testing or troubleshooting....and you want something to "Plug and Play"....
go for the SM220 or SM230.
We have a TekTronix 2465 O-scope and TekTronix 2712 Spectrum Analyzer that we use over here for monitoring purposes when we operated AM. Thats the reason we bought the SM230, something smaller to fit next to the radio.
It again depends on what your after.
Being that you will mostly be operating in the AM Mode, it is almost a must, to have some kind of O-Scope to monitor your Transmission.
The SM220 is a very good station monitor, and with the band scope adapter it makes for more fun.
We use the SM230 here. It has a built in band scope, plus a 10Mhz oscilloscope input......but they are very expensive.
These Kenwood units look great with the TS-850s and will connect to it no problem.
But these units are limited. They offer only basic monitoring of your transmitted waveform (you can't monitor "Trapezoidal Patterns" for audio as there is no Horizontal input). They do not have the versatility that a devoted Lab Type Oscilloscope can give you.
You can get a very nice O-scope for the same price you can get the Station Monitors for if you shop around. Of course it won't match the Kenwood Ts-850s, and you will have to learn the basics of adjusting the settings on the o-scope, and build or buy a sampling unit to get the signal to the scope.
So......if all your after is something to show your waveform to make sure your not over modulating.....and you are not going to use it for testing or troubleshooting....and you want something to "Plug and Play"....
go for the SM220 or SM230.
We have a TekTronix 2465 O-scope and TekTronix 2712 Spectrum Analyzer that we use over here for monitoring purposes when we operated AM. Thats the reason we bought the SM230, something smaller to fit next to the radio.
Last edited by Voodoo Guru on Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Voodoo Guru
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Newbie
O Scope
I saw some really great small portable O scopes for a good price, but they are all under 20Mhz. Is it possible to say use a 10Mhz on say 30Mhz? Is there a trick to to make it work? Sorry if this sounds like a silly question, I dont know so I figured it doesnt hurt to ask. Also I see allot PC based O scopes that look cool, do these work well? They wouldnt seem to be "real time" however. I have a line section with BNC connectors for the signal pickup, so using lab scope wouldnt be a problem. I really like those small LCD panel mount type and they can be found for $200! But again they are for like 10Mhz. 
Well I can see Im going to be in the poor house by the time this project is said and done.
Chris
Well I can see Im going to be in the poor house by the time this project is said and done.
Chris
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Envelope
OK,
What the Upper Bandwidth figure is for, is how far up in Frequency that the O-scope can "see" a single wave of that frequency.
So lets say its a 10Mc O-scope....
This means that you can look at a single sine wave of the Transmitted 10Mc signal.
But can you "see" a signal at 30Mc?
Yes, you can.
But it is not a single sine wave, it will be what they call the Waveform Envelope. This is what you will be wanting to see anyway. This is what you usually see on a station monitor.
Our SM230 is a 10Mc Scope.
It is best to get the highest bandwidth limit possible when purchasing a scope.
We've never messed with the PC O-scopes at all, so we don't have any information there.
What the Upper Bandwidth figure is for, is how far up in Frequency that the O-scope can "see" a single wave of that frequency.
So lets say its a 10Mc O-scope....
This means that you can look at a single sine wave of the Transmitted 10Mc signal.
But can you "see" a signal at 30Mc?
Yes, you can.
But it is not a single sine wave, it will be what they call the Waveform Envelope. This is what you will be wanting to see anyway. This is what you usually see on a station monitor.
Our SM230 is a 10Mc Scope.
It is best to get the highest bandwidth limit possible when purchasing a scope.
We've never messed with the PC O-scopes at all, so we don't have any information there.
Last edited by Voodoo Guru on Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Voodoo Guru
From Deep in the IDD of the Sub-Harmonix Realm
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Newbie
Envelope
Good Idea to start a new thread, sorry for deviating from topic to topic.
The oscilloscope that I was looking at is at the following link.
http://www.apogeekits.com/oscilloscope_ ... ounted.htm
The analog bandwidth on this is 2MHz. I really am trying to keep the station small, lightweight, and compact. That’s the whole reason why I want to get away from the old heavy tube rigs with them heavy plate modulator transformers.
Think this will work to give me a basic visual of my audio?
Chris
The oscilloscope that I was looking at is at the following link.
http://www.apogeekits.com/oscilloscope_ ... ounted.htm
The analog bandwidth on this is 2MHz. I really am trying to keep the station small, lightweight, and compact. That’s the whole reason why I want to get away from the old heavy tube rigs with them heavy plate modulator transformers.
Think this will work to give me a basic visual of my audio?
Chris
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dg7lan
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guess what, i tried my 10mhz scope on the if output of the 850 and didnt get any useable information read out. whats the matter?
this front pannel scope looks like a good device.. maybe one can build a kind of converter to get that connected? would be an interesting project..
this front pannel scope looks like a good device.. maybe one can build a kind of converter to get that connected? would be an interesting project..
...if in doubt, increase bandwidth
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Too Narrow
We'd think that it is too Narrow of a Bandwidth.
We personally wouldn't go with anything less than 10Mc.
Perty neat though.
Well Andy,
It could be a few things.
Not knowing what kind of 0-scope it is...
Your scope might not have enough gain in Vertical Amplifier to show the 8.83Mc IF Signal.
The IF Output on the TS-850s is of course at a frequency of 8.83Mc. The output level of this signal is not very high, so you need a pretty sensitive Vertical Amplifier on the O-scope.
It could also be the way you have the scope parameters setup, like the Vertical Volts/Div, Horizontal Time/Div, or the Sweep Triggering controls.
Or, the way you have the IF Output coupled to the scopes Vertical Input. You may be picking up surrounding AC power line interference which is masking the desired signal.
We personally wouldn't go with anything less than 10Mc.
Perty neat though.
Well Andy,
It could be a few things.
Not knowing what kind of 0-scope it is...
Your scope might not have enough gain in Vertical Amplifier to show the 8.83Mc IF Signal.
The IF Output on the TS-850s is of course at a frequency of 8.83Mc. The output level of this signal is not very high, so you need a pretty sensitive Vertical Amplifier on the O-scope.
It could also be the way you have the scope parameters setup, like the Vertical Volts/Div, Horizontal Time/Div, or the Sweep Triggering controls.
Or, the way you have the IF Output coupled to the scopes Vertical Input. You may be picking up surrounding AC power line interference which is masking the desired signal.
Last edited by Voodoo Guru on Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Voodoo Guru
From Deep in the IDD of the Sub-Harmonix Realm
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Newbie
Too Narrow
Well as usual I was afraid you would say that. Darn, it sure would have fit that 19" rack nicely.
Here is a Digital Oscilloscope that uses PC Sound Card for Input! Got lap top? Thats what I call plug and play!
Best of all its FREE!
http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=3428
Chris
Here is a Digital Oscilloscope that uses PC Sound Card for Input! Got lap top? Thats what I call plug and play!
Best of all its FREE!
http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=3428
Chris
Mike you're not kidding about the SM230. More than likely if you find one today you'll pay just about the same as they were new. I used to have an SM220 with the BS8 pan adapter, but sold it along with the 950 station. I may look into purchasing another one since they do sell for about $250 on eBay. I've been thinking about actually getting a "full-blown" oscilloscope but was never sure whether or not I really need one.
Great information Mike....I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread--or any related ones.... oscilloscopes.
Great information Mike....I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread--or any related ones.... oscilloscopes.