Flattest Monitor??

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JJ2013
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Flattest Monitor??

Post by JJ2013 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:56 pm

Hi y'all!!

I read everywhere that TS870 has a very flat receiver even at 6 kHz wide. Now, I also hear that the Monitor on the 870 is very good. Now, does that mean that the Monitor is also flat across a receive bandwidth of max 6 kHz? Is the TS950 SDX (without VooDoo mods) as flat as the 870, both when receiving signals and when monitoring one's own signal off the air?

Can anyone quantify the flatness of the Monitor when you're listening to yourself in the head-phones?

Can we say that the 870/950SDX offer true off air monitoring? I guess that is not true as what one hears in the headphones when using the Monitor function is not RF..... :( The idea being that it is important to know really what one sounds like at the transmitting end before one's signal hits the airwaves!

Cheers!!

JJ

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Post by Voodoo Guru » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:36 am

Howdy JJ,
I read everywhere that TS870 has a very flat receiver even at 6 kHz wide.
Although the RX and TX Bandpass of the TS-870 is very flat, a stock 870 is not perfectly flat. Kenwood added a little Low Frequency Cutoff on the TX Audio and a little Low Frequency boost on the RX Audio. This can be corrected by modification as per the Kenwood Service Manual Page 44.

Now, I also hear that the Monitor on the 870 is very good. Now, does that mean that the Monitor is also flat across a receive bandwidth of max 6 kHz?
The TX Monitor is pretty good on the TS-870 but the TX Monitor bandwidth is only what the DSP is allowing to pass which is around 3.2Kc. The 870 does not have True RF TX Monitoring as the monitor signal is taken from the DSP after computations before RF Mixing and then converted back to the Analog realm for listening. See the Kenwood TS-870 Service Manual Page 40.

Is the TS950 SDX (without VooDoo mods) as flat as the 870, both when receiving signals and when monitoring one's own signal off the air?
No. The TS-870's Receiver and TX Monitor is flatter then the Stock TS-950sdx without the modifications. The 950sdx uses a 2.1Kc Filter in the Sub Receiver to monitor it's Transmissions not to mention having allot of analog audio filtering circuitry for bandwidth shaping.

Can anyone quantify the flatness of the Monitor when you're listening to yourself in the head-phones?
Not sure what your asking for here.

Can we say that the 870/950SDX offer true off air monitoring?
The TS-870 is not true off air monitoring as it is being monitored from the DSP in the Digital Audio Domain.

The TS-950sdx is true off air monitoring in a fashion as it is monitoring the final Transmit Frequency just before it goes to the Final Power Amplifier.

Take care,
Voodoo Guru
From Deep in the IDD of the Sub-Harmonix Realm

JJ2013
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Post by JJ2013 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:33 am

Hey VooDoo Guru!

Sure appreciate your consistent replies despite your being probably busy still tweaking and dreaming up more ways to get to VooDoo Audio nirvana :wink:

By "quantify" I mean do you have something visual like a graph or similar or a "scientific" way of demonstrating the "flatness" of a receiver and/or Monitor on a receiver/transceiver?

Oh, another question I have has to do with the VooDoo modified EX3200. It is really that much better than stock EX3200? I mean, I "only" have a TS870 and am very far from the kind of TX bandwidth you are able to create so would a VooDoo modded EX3200 go to waste unless I transmitted really wide?

Cheers!

JJ

Cheers!!

JJ

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Post by Voodoo Guru » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:51 am

Howdy JJ,
Sure appreciate your consistent replies despite your being probably busy still tweaking and dreaming up more ways to get to VooDoo Audio nirvana Wink
Nah, Just busy with the move and getting the River House ready for the market.

By "quantify" I mean do you have something visual like a graph or similar or a "scientific" way of demonstrating the "flatness" of a receiver and/or Monitor on a receiver/transceiver?
Unfortunately, the data we had for the TS-870 is no longer in the database as we have abandoned modifications for this rig.

We do have a recent graph showing the comparison of the Stock TS-950sdx Receiver to the modified 950VMSDX.
There is also a graph of the TX Monitor from the modified TS-950, but we do not have a graph of the stock rig.

The following is a white-noise graph which shows the Main Receiver in LSB with the rig at its maximum receive bandwidth. The Yellow Line is the Stock 950sdx, the Green line is the modified 950VMSDX.

Image


The following is a graph of the TX Monitor with an audio frequency sweep being input into the modified line input through the Jensen Transformer. Unfortunately, we do not have a graph of the stock SDX for comparison.

Image

Oh, another question I have has to do with the VooDoo modified EX3200. It is really that much better than stock EX3200? I mean, I "only" have a TS870 and am very far from the kind of TX bandwidth you are able to create so would a VooDoo modded EX3200 go to waste unless I transmitted really wide?
You have to understand that the EX3200 is a Harmonix Generator. This unit will add Harminix and Sub Harmonix into the Audio Mix. This adds depth, dimension, and richness to the mix. It does not matter what the Transmit Bandwidth is when using this unit as long as the Transmit Audio Frequency Spectrum is BALANCED when using it.

The modified EX3200 is cleaner and adds more Sub Harmonix due to the installation of high end Op Amps which have greater low frequency extension and a cleaner high end, the installation of higher grade coupling capacitors, power supply modifications for a cleaner DC, etc.


Just remember, there is not just one single Holy Grail item you can change to achieve Audio Nirvana. It's everything you do that is ADDITIVE to the final product. It took us 10 years of culling out equipment, modifying equipment, and trying configurations which people said would never work to achieve the sound we have now. It is a sound that was sought after for a very long time. Yours will be different and it takes time to find it. It aighnt instant breakfast...most people give up or settle for "good enough".

Take Care,
Voodoo Guru
From Deep in the IDD of the Sub-Harmonix Realm

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ECC82
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Post by ECC82 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:58 am

Hi Mike,

What program do you use to produce those graphs? (Maybe it is build in the software that goes with the Wavenode-2d.)
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Post by Voodoo Guru » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:18 am

Howdy,
The program used for the graphing was SpectraPlus-SC.
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Post by !KANT » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:38 am

Agreed (100%) Guru--it isn't INSTANT breakfast. Many people do give up...most of them before they really get started. (I know of many who have gone head-first into virtual audio, then quit within a couple weeks, returning to their more familiar 'IHY or Behringer components.)

JJ2013
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Flattest monitor

Post by JJ2013 » Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:29 pm

Howdy VooDoo Guru!

I forgot to thank you for having provided those graphs !! AAAAAAAWESOOOOOOME!

Hope to catch you on the air some time 8)

Cheers,

JJ

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