X-treme eSSB Audio FORUM

Hi, I found this forum while searching for help for EX3200 (and I found the article about EX3200 setting is extremely helpful.) I'm not in this profession, so when I'm building a computer based home theatre +karaoke +recording system, I have run into a lot of questions. I've been googling around but little have been solved. So I thought I try here - from what I read people seem to be very friendly here.

Here're what I have:

A PC w/ lots of hard drives and a Creative sound card w/ external panel
A Berhringer mixer 1832
A Berhringer EX3200
A BMB DEP3000-II digital echo processor (very old unit got off ebay)
A set of Onkyo HTS5200 7.1 home theatre system
A set of wireless microphone

My purpose is quite simple: enjoy some movies (PC+onkyo only) and have private karaoke party with family/friends, maybe once a while use software to record ourselves just for fun.

My karaoke songs are all in video formats such as mpg, vob or dat and are store in the HDs. They will be played back with a MPEG decoder card instead of software. The card has seperate A/V out so people can sing on big screen (which is connected to this mpeg card) while choose songs in small one (connect to video card). Right now I have audio output to the sound card front penal AUX2 input. My microphones' input is connected to the mic of BMB, I turn off all echo/delay/repeat though and only use EQ, then line out to EX3200; then to mixer 1832's mic. From there, I add some effects and output to sound card font penal's line in2, then optical cable from sound card output to onkyo receiver to speakers.

My problem is:
1. Since the music of karaoke is output into sound card (so it won't be involved in any effects etc), there's no way to adjust volume except in the windows system. I have thousands of songs and volume isn't all the same. It's very inconvenient if I can't adjust it via hardware. I have tried output into CD/tape of the mixer but it's the same, as there's no volume control for CD/tape as well; I even tried input into one of the mic channel and not only the noise increased a lot, some music also got some strange distortion. So what should I do? Also is there a way to auto-balance the music volume? When I searched for this kind of device, I found something called "BePro V6-II Auto-Balance Dynamic Expander". Would any expander do the trick?

2. Should I get a compressor to prevent mic feedback (someone from other forum suggested this)?

3. How can I make the overall sound (music + vocal) "mixed"? It still sounds quite "seperate".

Sorry for a lengthy post. Thanks in advance!
Liz
3.

Howdy Liz,
Welcome to the Forum!!!!

WOW!! you have allot of stuff!! hahahaha
Unfortunately, what we do here is tailor our voice audio for transmission on the Radio Waves.
You are doing something that we have never even tried.
But audio is audio so maybe we can help....some.

1 - If understood correctly, the output of the Mpeg card your using for the karaoke music goes to the Sound card input? Maybe you could use one of the channels in the Mixer to control the volume input? In other words, you would come out of the Mpeg card Audio outputs and go into a line input of one of the Mixer channels, then take an aux output from the mixer and use that to feed the aux input of the Sound card. The mixer should have a auxiliary output separate form the main output (like the monitor circuit) where you can just feed the Mpeg info from that one mixer channel through it.

There are allot of configurations you can try.

The reason you got distortion and the noise level jumped up when you went into a mic channel is because it was a Line level signal being input into a Mic Level input. You need to try the Line Level input.

We don't know anything about an auto balancing device except for maybe something called a 'Leveler'.

An Expander is just for reducing background room noise, like a noise gate.


2 - A compressor could help, but more then likely not. That all has to do with room acoustics, speaker placement/angles, mic placement, mic gains, etc. The trick is to find the best balance.


3 - You need to bring the final mix of each channel (karoke music, voice) to a mixer. the mixer will give you the ability to adjust the gains and balance of the 2.

Hope this helps some.
Take Care,

Thank you so much for your reply! Most of the time the responses I got online ended at very first sentense, like "never tried" or "play with it more times then you'll figure out".

I immediately tried the line-in on the mixer and it worked! Now I recall I was going to try that one, but I didn't have the right cables so just input into mic and assume they were the same!

I plan to invite a couple of friends over soon to test it so I can adjust settings around while they are singing...also see if I will have a lot of feedback. Although I know I probably still have long way to go before I can make it sound prefect for me...

Thanks again!

Great!!!
Well its always good to hear a few suggestions, even if you think you have tried everything. There is always something that you haven't tried and usually talking about it will either give you new incite into it, or just hearing yourself talking about it will give you an idea or two.

Glad we were able to help!
HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!

New question: where is EQ supposed to be?

As I said earlier mic is plug into BMB echo processor then add EQ (a simple 4-band) and out to EX3200, then mixer. The mixer has a overall 9-band EQ but I disabled it. Now it seems this old BMB is going to retire (reason I could get it so cheap from ebay), so I'm thinking about getting an EQ. Should I still have mic input into EQ, then EX3200, then mixer, or should I adjust it somehow? I tried mic to mix directly before, and EQ it before out to speaker, but it just didn't sound good. What is the common way? And is an external EQ redudant for me?

Thank you!
Liz

Howdy Liz,
Hmmmm....No an EQ is a MUST!
Try it like this....
Try coming from the mic into a Mic input on the Mixer, then out of the effects loop of the mixer add the EQ and the the BMB, then back into the mixer (via the effects loop input)
The way you had it before, we don't see how the BMB was working unless it had a Microphone preamp in it.
You need to bring the Mic Level output from the Microphone up to Line Level with a mic preamp before you inject it into the EQ or the BMB.
The Mixer will do this, then the effects loop allows an output to add your effects like the EQ and BMB, then brings the audio back in and adds it to the mix.
Try that and see how it works.
Take Care!

The BMB does have preamp. Although it's called echo processor, I didn't really use its effects, as I like the effects in mixer better. So it actually acts like a preamp and EQ. The reason I want to replace it with an EQ is the volume control doesn't work well - sometimes it's noisy and sometimes no sound at all. I have used deoxit twice (opened it up) and didn't improve much.

I googled around last nite and read about several behringer devices and wonder which one does the most for me - for improve live vocal:

-FBQ1502 - EQ (it says has amp as well, does that mean I can input mic to it directly, then ex3200 and then mixer?)
- vx2496 - preamp, equalizer, compressor, expander/gate, de-esser . it's discontinued but can find in ebay. I assume if go with this one, it'd be the 1st thing after mic?
- mdx2600. Expander/Gate/Compressor/ Peak Limiter/De-Esser. How should I connect if go w/ this one?
mic - mixer - ex3200 - (compressor) mixer - (add EQ & effects) - speaker

or:
mic - mixer - ex3200 - mixer - (add EQ & effects) - (compressor) - speaker

What do you think I should get?

Thanks again! Have a nice weekend!

Howdy Liz,

Don't know anything about the FBQ1502.

The VX2496 is a great unit, although limited in its effects loops (it has one).
If you opt for this unit, put the EQ and EX3200 in the loop. this will place it before the compressor.
Bad thing is that it is unbalanced connections.

The MDX2600 is your best bet.
Try the connection as so:
Mic - Mixer (mic preamp) - EQ - EX3200 - MDX2600 - mixer - speaker

For the Feedback Problem, you might be able to use the Downward Expander in the MDX2600. This will dampen the background noise when no one is talking in the mic.

The reasoning for this order is as so:

Mic first - of course hehe

Mixer next - for the preamp and then go to the effects loop

EQ next - this is to shape the voice for the best sound and it can also reduce room rumble and high frequency problems.

EX3200 next - this is usually placed after the EQ so it doesn't have to add effects to frequencies that you didn't want. It is more effective after the EQ.

MDX2600 next - you want the compressor after the EQ and the Low frequency effects units, this way it can soften and make the voice more smooth. You can also use the Desser to remove voice sibilance on the 'sss', and the Limiter if you get someone that likes to scream instead of sing.

Have Fun!!!!

Thank you so much! I will now hunt for a MDX2600 then let you know how things go!

Got my MDX2600 today!!!

I have connected everything together as you suggested:
Mic - Mixer (mic preamp) - EQ - EX3200 - MDX2600

I will have to take some time to read the manual as well as google around since the compressor is a new thing for me. But I got question already: do I only use one channel or can I connect it like the way you connected EX3200 (1st channel output to 2nd channel)? Would it serve better in any ways?

Before I look anywhere else, I guess it doesn't hurt to ask at here first. - Is there a "typical" setting I can start with then fine tune according to my room/speaker position etc?

Thank you! And have a great weekend! (wow, weekend again)

Great!
Your going to like that unit allot.

do I only use one channel or can I connect it like the way you connected EX3200 (1st channel output to 2nd channel)? Would it serve better in any ways?

No, don't hook it up like that.
You only need one channel to do mono work in the position you have it in now.

Maybe at a later date if you want to try the downward expander you can hook up channel 2 in between the Mixer (Mic Pre) and the EQ. Then use only the downward expander.
You can also add add a little compression before the EQ and it will soften the voice allot. You can achieve this by using High Attack, SLooooow Release and a Ratio of about 2:1 or 3:1.
You will have to experiment with it.

Before I look anywhere else, I guess it doesn't hurt to ask at here first. Razz - Is there a "typical" setting I can start with then fine tune according to my room/speaker position etc?

Well just starting out, only use channel one in the order you have it now.
Adjust the controls as follows:

SC MON & SC EXT buttons OUT

Ratio at 2:1 or 3:1

LO Contour - this will depend on if you are having low frequency thumping problems or hum. Try it OUT first.

ATTACK at 10

INTERACT KNEE pushed IN

AUTO is OUT

RELEASE at 1

TUBE - try this OUT first and then play with it later

ENHANCER - OUT

I/O METER - this shows the Input Level and the OUTPUT Level of the channel, Generally its left OUT to watch the output

IN/OUT - pressed IN

OUTPUT - this will be set to give the correct drive LEvel to the next unit.

THRESHOLD - This control is set to give you about a -10 to -20 Gain Reduction on the Gain Reduction Meter.
This is after all the Input and Output gains have been set to the correct level (usually about -3db on peaks)

Give that a go and adjust from there.

Have Fun!!!

cool...thank you! I will try it tomorrow.