Lacking audio (TS870S + Behringer)

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JJ2013
Voodoo Audiophile
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Lacking audio (TS870S + Behringer)

Post by JJ2013 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:58 pm

Hi y'all VooDoo gurus and Audiophiles!

It's been a while since I played with the settings of my audio-chain last and a QSO I made today with a more distant station made me really think!

Below, see two separate audio chains that I used if the test:

#1 Chain (I use this for eSSB)

Heil PR40 (dynamic mic)
2200 Mic pre-amp
1124P DSP Parametric EQ (PEQ)
MDX2600 Processor
EX3200
PI-XX Jensen Audio isolator
TS870S (going in through ACC2 and C131 cap mod done)

#2 Chain (used more for DX work)

Audio Technica AD7481 (Dynamic mic)
8 Band EQ by W2IHY
EQ Plus by W2IHY
TS870S (audio going in through the front)

On the air, I was told that my audio appeared stronger using #2 (the propagation was pretty poor with my signal being an S-9 at best on the receiving and dwindling almost into nothing at times) than #1. Also, one of my PEQ settings made my audio sound "tinny" so I will need to see if I'd overEQ's some of the highs?

Not sure why #1 would produce audio that appears to lack "voice power" and #2 sounds "stronger"? Even with band conditions not being great I could hear from the MP3 played over the air that #1 sounded more balanced although it sounded week on the air! It's like I wasn't "driving" the rig well enough with #1 generating a "wimpy" audio in terms of presence or something.

I can make the audio sound more powerful on #1 but then my ALC starts going all over the place and I don't want that. So, it's gotta be my settings overall that don't impart the kind of quality to my audio as I would want.

Would sure appreciate feedback and suggestions!!

73 de JJ
NI2M

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Post by Voodoo Guru » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:41 am

Howdy JJ,

Well, to simply answer your question. When you EQ your audio for the best spectral balance for eSSB, after adding the lows and the highs that you would want, one of the first things that happens is that you start to cut your mid-range frequencies for balance. This is where most of your "Talk Power" comes from. This is one of the problems with eSSB, unless you have fairly strong signals then the audio starts to sound rumbly and unclear. eSSB is best heard with 20dB to 40dB over S9 Signals.

That being said, some of the more advanced audiophiles out there have endeavored to set up an audio profile that will work regardless of signal strength or the bandwidth of the filter the receiving operator is using on the other end. This type of audio is very difficult to obtain without using multiband compression which allows you to increase the mid-range density without increasing the mid-range amplitude.

Most people that do both eSSB and DX type of operating will usually make 2 EQ Profiles. One that has a nice mellow spectrally balanced tone, the other with a super crunchy/punchy mid-range audio. It seems that you have done this by actually using 2 Audio Chains.

Take Care,
Voodoo Guru
From Deep in the IDD of the Sub-Harmonix Realm

JJ2013
Voodoo Audiophile
Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:16 pm

Lacking audio (TS870S)

Post by JJ2013 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:59 am

Howdy VooDoo Guru!

Great to see your response as always and I am perhaps starting to "get it" finally ;-)

Amp: I've never owned one but perhaps I need to think about getting one.....although (HOA community, need I say more...... :cry: ) a good antenna and location is the most important to begin with and I have neither! Then, with increased RF, I may be inviting RFI......

I forgot to write in my original post that for DX work I actually have another completely separate audio chain and I don't use the Kenwood there but my ICOM756 Pro III.

Not sure whether MIC AGC (there is a MENU item for that) or Bandshift impact audio that is fed through the accessory port on the '870, but it seemed that I had used a 100Hz low-end and switched it to 0 now and that seemed to make the ALC behave......

Multiband processing is something that I'd been thinking about earlier but perhaps this green-horn try and use the existing pieces of hardware as is a while longer. Adding pieces might make my head explode ;-)

Sure appreciate your feedback!!

73 de JJ

P.S. Hope to hear you on the band sometime.

!KANT
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Post by !KANT » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:41 pm

This was a discussion within a couple groups where it was determined that eSSB audio "robs you of talk POWER". This is true. Many of us are all too familiar with restrictions in communities when directly link to Ham Radio. But your best bet is to still acquire an amplifier, especially if you want to have a stronger signal for eSSB. Since it's not IMMEDIATELY feasible, then experiment with not extra EQ filters from 900 - 2kHz. It doesn't have to be a drastic increase of 9db+, but subtle increase(s).

Also bear in mind that the receiving station may be listening narrower than you're transmitting. I've known it to be true that stations operating on a wider are more intelligible at weak signal points if I am listening on the same bandwidth. In essence this may not be all eSSB's fault, but also the station listening to you. Not to mention other variables which can come into play on their end.

JJ2013
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Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:16 pm

TS870s and Talk Power

Post by JJ2013 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:43 am

Hi,
Sure appreciate your feedback and I have tweaked by EQ settings not to have too significant boosts or cuts and I am cutting more than I am boosting. Also, I made changes to my processors settings which seemed to help.
Current PEQ (Behringer 1124P DSP) settings are:

Frequency Frequency "Fine" setting Bandwidth Boost/Cut
50 Hz - 3 40/60 +3
125 Hz 0 50/60 -2
630 Hz 0 60/60 -1
1,600 Hz -1 60/60 +2
4,000 Hz +2 60/60 +3
5,000 Hz -2 20/60 +1

73 ya'll!

JJ

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Post by !KANT » Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:34 pm

Happy to hear of the progress you're making. Looking at those numbers, I can't help but notice the bandwidth of the higher frequencies. It's been common practice to narrow bandwidth as you get higher in frequency. In this case 4kHz. [5kHz is just fine at 1/3 octave as a starting point, BUT it's Fine tune of "-2"isn't really being passed by the TX filter, assuming you're TX bandwidth setting is 100 - 3000.]

Suggestion: 4kHz - no more than a bandwidth of 20. Fine of +5 to +10 and Gain of what you hear is adequate--don't fear increasing it up to +16....experiment!! :twisted:

If you experience tearing [which I doubt will occur with just those two filters of 4 & 5kHz] use your 2600 to keep those high frequencies under control--this is a great opportunity to start dabbling with Side-chaining and really understanding your equipment. :wink:

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