Condenser microphones

Reproducing that Incoherent Rhetoric from the Flapping Pie Hole...
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JJ2013
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Condenser microphones

Post by JJ2013 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:05 am

Hi y'all VooDoo gurus and Audiophiles!

I am not seeing a lot of posts about pros & cons of using condenser mics.....Currently using PR-40 and AudioTechnica ATM250 dynamic microphones with my TS870S. PR-40/Behringer audio gear going in through the back ACC2 (cap mod done) and ATM250/8 band EQ/EQ Plus going in through the front (for non eSSB type situations). Get unsolicited reports on audio with both audio chains.

Now, it could be that I still have (most likely) ways to go to get the settings even better on the Behringer audio gear but from the little I've heard (granted, trying to really hear the difference when using a lap-top/online Youtube and regular head set!) it would somehow seem like with a condenser there may be more "granularity" or "definition" in the audio produced when using a condenser??? At the same time, some condensers like the Behringer B1 has a major bump towards 4kHz and up and the frequency curve is very FLAT between 20Hz and 3kHz.

Question is, is it more advisable to use a mic that has that "bump" originally rather than do it with a parametric EQ? Somehow I am thinking that perhaps it is "better" to have a "natural" bump rather than through post-processing audio, but again that may really be theoretical as none of you have actually heard my voice and much of the end result will depend on your natural voice of course as well.

Yup, I know there is no all-exhaustive answer to my question but I would appreciate feedback on this!

Cheers!
JJ
NI2M

P.S. My shack is quiet (except, the fan of the amp may become audible with a hot condenser but noise gate/expander should help).

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Post by Voodoo Guru » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:53 am

Howdy JJ,

It all depends upon your voice and the frequency response of the mic as compared to how much EQ'ing you have to do after the fact. Less is definitely more in this respect.

Short, you have to go thru a lot of mics to find the one that matches your voice the best. This way you don't have to use as much EQ'ing to get it there. Anytime you EQ, your adding phase shift. Necessary evil in more cases then not, but of course the end result and how it sounds is what matters.

Condensers are VERY sensitive. What you think is not allot of background noise will surprise you when you hook up a condenser. Try to find an inexpensive one to play around with and see if you like it, then go for the more expensive ones. You can usually find a used one for sale for very good prices.

Good luck on your quest, Mics are a very subjective and personal subject.
Take Care,
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JJ2013
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Condenser microphones

Post by JJ2013 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:58 pm

Howdy VooDoo Guru :D

Appreciate your comments and you're absolutely right about a lot of the resultant audio having to do with one's voice characteristics. The audio reports I am getting now, often unsolicited, are pretty good but I am trying to "perfect" it.....want even higher definition articulation, balance, harmony, a dash of punchiness, "character"....that is "all"!

Will probably get an entry level deal at first and see what it sounds like.

Sensitivity: that is clear and one needs to be realistic in terms what one can do in a "normal" ham shack albeit I have been contemplating treating the room with acoustic foam/panel(s) :wink: Sure, it's not that I would even dream of a "studio," but every little helps and with a sensitive condenser around "treatment" like that may help.......At the same time, no treatment helps if I got settings wrong :wink:

Presently my DSP1124P EQ settings:
63Hz 60/60 -2dB
160Hz 60/60 -1dB
500Hz 60/60 -1dB
1,245Hz 50/60 +4dB
3,200Hz 60/60 +2dB
5,000Hz 20/60 +3dB
6,300Hz 15/60 +2dB

I've even played around with 8kHz and 10kHz but those settings most probably aren't "realistic."

Best 73s de JJ

JJ2013
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Re: Condenser microphones

Post by JJ2013 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:09 pm

Presently my DSP1124P EQ settings:
63Hz 60/60 -2dB
160Hz 60/60 -1dB
500Hz 60/60 -1dB
1,245Hz 50/60 +4dB
3,200Hz 60/60 +2dB
5,000Hz 20/60 +3dB
6,300Hz 15/60 +2dB

MEANT 1,250 Hz of course :wink:

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Post by !KANT » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:11 pm

Personally, I prefer the FULL sound condensers are known for. But depending on environment, many need to be tamed/controlled. There is a video I acquired several months ago named, "Master Class". It's a uncut comparison of HIGH END condenser microphones tested in a Professional studio environment. It was very interesting when you [the listener] heard each one. I still use the RE-320 because of the Variable D and more pronounced top end. I've heard some stations with dynamic mics and a background which causes them to sound like they're in the cockpit a 727. What I've heard from your station on 10M, you sound great and I prefer the rack and condenser combination.

As I look at your 1124P parameters, I'm curious to what your goal is. Is it to balance out the mic?? I bring this question up because of the wide Q.

JJ2013
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Post by JJ2013 » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:01 pm

Hi Ozzie!

Appreciate the response and I can tell you that the settings are different again :=) See below, Presets # 1 and #2 (#2 is more chew the fat kind with #1 having more of a punch).

Settings when using the PR40 :
#1 (I know some folks don't have any boosts below 2/2.5kHz except for the very low end)
63Hz 40/60 +6dB
166Hz 60/60 -1dB
1,600Hz 60/60 +3dB
2,000Hz 45/60 (could probably be 30/60) +3dB
3,500Hz 45/60 +2dB

#2 (you actually, seemed to like this setting and the PR40)
63Hz 40/60 +3dB
166Hz 60/60 +3dB
1,600Hz 60/60 +3dB
2,000Hz 60/60 -1dB
3,500Hz 45/60 +2dB
The first 3 frequencies are all boosted 3dB so on reflection I am wondering if that makes sense?? Need to play with these.

I should've had you listen to the Behringer B1 with the settings below too (they're a little different from the first time you heard me using the B1):

Behringer B1 condenser
Settings (#1)
40Hz 45/60 +5dB
168Hz 60/60 -2dB
400Hz 60/60 -5dB
2,000Hz 60/60 -2dB
3,400Hz 45/60 -4dB

A neighboring ham (he lives 700 yards away from me) and I were on 10 m today (he has a SDR and can receive me pretty wide!) liked both mics and when I widen out the bottom end when using B1 and cut the high end 3,400 kHz more than 4dB (I think I went all the way to -7dB CUT!) it became pretty difficult to tell the mics apart! Both were really good but as he tends to like a really nice bass sound he picked the PR40 as the winner......

At any rate, I will need to keep playing and do something about the many 60/60s .......although, I am liking what I hear on the Monitor of the TS870 and I tend to like the condenser actually too.......Also, the added benefit is that when using the condenser I am not "riveted" to the staying right in front of the mic but can move my head off to the sides without impacting the level of audio : )))) Also, I think it much better when one doesn't have to crank the gain on the preamp all the way to +50dB that I do when using the PR40.......

Project must go on.............

There comes a time though when you (and perhaps listeners too) like the audio so I am not sure what I can gain by additional exploration? I'd also switched the order of my gear incidentally from when you heard me last I think.......I've got the EX3200 immediately after the 1124P now with the MDX2600 compressor being last in the chain. When we spoke last, I had the EX3200 in the last spot with the compressor before the EX3200.

Until we hear again : ))))))

JJ

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