Whats next for the rack

That VOODOO Low End, Should it be allowed on the Airways or Not?
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CraigN7CAL
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Whats next for the rack

Post by CraigN7CAL » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:52 pm

Well lets see,, I am currently 100% Behringer and thinking next generation of the rack. I already know that the '09 goal is the 950SDX and to upgrade the Alpha to twin 3CX800's, but what for the rack?,,,?

As is

VX 2000
DSP 1124
PEQ 2200
DSP 2024P
EX 3200
MDX 2200
UB 802 mixer
MXL 990

I only use the VX 2000 as a gate and preamp of sorts and I use the PEQ 2200 for line level and the High and lo cut filters, High cut for "S" tearing and the lo cut for a quick "DX" setting to take out some bottom at times

So,,,, I want to get a mic fairly soon,, and for all the good that the RE-20 would bring,, I am thinking about the Shure SM7B. I just want to be different I guess and I love the sound of that mic.

The UB802 will have to go the way of the RX1602 so that leaves the meat and potatoes of the rack. First, Voodoo-LABS will have to Mod the 3200, that goes without saying and lets just say that I get the 533 from Bellari just because I gotta.

That leaves alot to think about switching out. So I ask, almost reluctantly, what would you do with my rack.

WAKE UP ALL YOU BROTHAS FROM A THUNDA MUTHA.........
A multi-syllabic individual with a linguistic capability that far surpasses the guttural utterances of normal men

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Rack:The next generation

Post by KC7OV » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:57 pm

DEQ2496?I plan on getting one thus replacing the 1100P and the DBX
compressor.Changing out the MXL990 is a good move too.Replaced mine with the Audio Tecnica AT2020.Alot less noisier and better sound.

Mike.KC7OV

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Ray Kara
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Post by Ray Kara » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:32 pm

When I look back at where I have come from, the two pieces of rack gear that made the biggest change for me was 1st. HHB Radius 20 EQ.
2nd. Bellari RP520 Tube preamp. Both Voodoo-Lab modified. The HHb is real hard to find ,but worth the search. You will have unlimited control with it. :D
Lastly when you get your TS-950SDX this will open your ears to a whole new world.

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Post by !KANT » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:20 pm

Your ne><t move should be the RP-533 (with opamp swap and tube rolls)--Get with the VooDoo program!!

The SM-7B is a very nice dynamic mic and I loved mine [wishing I had kept it instead of the 990]--990 is an excellent mic for it's cost. But the receiving station will not detect which mic you're using unless YOU let the cat out the bag... **Remember the $5 mic** :roll:

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Post by Voodoo Guru » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:53 am

We don't know about all that !kant.
From all the mics we tested, the ones that have stayed here at the Voodoo-LABS have a certain 'je ne se qua' about them.
It's almost like there are 'layers' of Harmonix that gives them a fullness and depth, like a 3 dimensionality.
Sure, you can use the '$5 Mic' and sound great, but why not use the mic that gives your audio equipment something to process.
It all starts with the Vocal Chords, but the Mic is the next link in the chain.
As you well know, It's all cumulative in the end mix.

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Post by !KANT » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:43 am

No doubt, but I still preferred the SM-7B. I have yet to introduce an RE-20 on my List of Must Haves. (Never had a "craving" for it). But the receiving station will never know which mic you're using unless you tell them... :wink:

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Post by Voodoo Guru » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:49 am

True,
but I guarantee you that IF you swap between the mics then they could HEAR a difference. Now of course this depends upon their receiving capabilities, what kind of rig they have, their 'Ear', etc. This also depends upon the Transmitting station, rig, setup, and of course that the 2 ea mics in question have had the Audio Chain optimized for each microphones capability.
So, with all things considered, although you might not be able to tell what the manufacturer or model of microphone the transmitting station is using, you will be able to tell a DIFFERENCE between the A & B comparison.

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Post by !KANT » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:18 am

In that particular circumstance, of course the differences will be heard. But how many stations will actually perform such a task during an average QSO?? I know I won't. And i have a file of you doing a swap of the RE-20 and PR-40 over th air. The rack wasn't equalized for the '40 and the difference was astonishing. But once EQ'd anyone would be hard pressed to tell any difference...unless there is something to use for comparison.

Chances are I'm gonna stay with the MXL-990, but who knows what will be added--first things first, main HF gear. :wink:

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Post by Voodoo Guru » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:46 am

The rack wasn't equalized for the '40 and the difference was astonishing. But once EQ'd anyone would be hard pressed to tell any difference...unless there is something to use for comparison.
Not True.
We did the comparison for Greg, W5UDX and also changed the EQ Filters for the best match to the corresponding Microphones sonic characteristics. Greg could tell the RE-20 every time because of it's richer Low End Harmonix. There is just something about the RE-20 that passes the lushness and fullness along with clarity of voice that other dynamics can't pass.
This is mentioned in the Microphone wars, EQ'ed the RE-20 wins every time.

Now unEQ'ed as stand alone mics, We would have to say the PR-40 is better because of it's pre emphasis on the high frequencies. Almost Pre EQ'ed by design.

But, the sonic difference IS audible over the air.
Granted, you have to have the right Radio equipment to play at this level.
We believe the recording you heard of the comparison was on a modified TS-850/DSP-100 combination and the reception was on a TS-870s.

The TS-950VMSDX is the next level of that performance.
As Greg, W5UDX says, You can compare the Sonics of the TS-850/DSP-100 and the TS-950VMSDX to the performance of a Corvette against a Bugatti Veyron.

In other words, there is no comparison.

On another trial, the RE-20 was pitted against the TSM Muneo Dual Tube 2" Diaphragm condenser. Greg was shocked that the Muneo cleaned the RE-20's clock across the entire frequency spectrum.

We now have 2ea booms here, one has the TSM Muneo on it for use on the TS-950VMSDX on HF, the other has the RE-20 on it for use with the TS-2000 on VHF.

The PR-40 was given to the Praise and Worship Leader of our Church for a Christmas Present.

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Post by !KANT » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:44 am

I'm not denying the performance and flexibility of the RE-20 in anyway, except some may find it to be OVERKILL in this application (as many have, due to limited bandwidth of 3KHz to 4KHz on average). If there is no mention of a mic change, signals were basic acceptance for communication (which is quite subjective), the other station isn't going to know right off the bat what microphone you're using. Most cases they can't tell which transceiver another station is on until it's revealed.

Granted, some radios have trademark sounds, like keys do. It will require someone with a precise ear to catch it. If I truly go forward with this build I will be forced to add a RE-20 because of your comparison tests....maybe. As for the 950SDXVM vs. 850/100, I'm still gonna be on the hunt for the latter of the two--I just fell in love with what it can produce. I look at the 950SDXVM as a true Elite Audio Transceiver. Now there is a side-by-side comparison I would love to hear. :twisted:
Last edited by !KANT on Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Voodoo Guru » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:16 am

Ahhhh....
Clarity is now unveiled.
Our target audience are the true eSSB Audiophiles.
The peps that have the ears and the equipment to detect and make notice any slight change in your transmitted audio sonics.
If there is even a slight change, they WILL notice and tell you 'Hey, what did you do, you sound different'.
This goes so far as to be able to tell if you just turned on your Rack and the tubes haven't warmed up yet. This is a Fact!

These are the people we QSO with 98% of the time.

Not wanting to sound overbearing or condescending by no means,
and there is absolutly nothing wrong with traditional SSB bandwidth tailored with external processing for a perfect transmitted audio Balance.
But, being as that 98% of our QSO's are with other 6kc eSSB audiophiles, we have tailored our equipment for there receivers. We don't cater to the narrower receiver band passes as we want maximum fidelity in the 6kc+ bandwidths.

So true, some might find it OVERKILL in this application, but we weren't talking about them.

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Post by !KANT » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:43 pm

[quote="Voodoo Guru]So true, some might find it OVERKILL in this application, but we weren't talking about them.

Take Care,[/quote]

When are we ever talking about them (in a POSITIVE SIDE of things)?? :lol:

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Post by SawzAll » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:39 am

Hmmmm...

A mic that has a relatively flat response, high sensitivity, high SPL, and low noise are -generally speaking- "condenser mics". They offers great flexibility to amend the mid-range response - because they don't add much - if at all. Mics that have 'rise' in the mid-range can become problematic, as many dynamic mics do. Mid-range frequencies are already too abundant to the human ear, and often can mask other subtle frequencies in that same range. I'm not saying they can't and don't work; they just need more equalization to tailor it to ones personal best 'voodoo'.

I prefer condensers. Any quality condenser mic will be nearly flat. One can add bass and highs, and then careful subtract particular redundant or over-emphasized mid-range tones. The higher SPL allows for a better overall dynamic range if EQ'ed correctly. Sure, a Neumann U87 would be best; but some of the newer/less than $400 suggested list price entries can sure sound great! The MXL 2003, V88, and a few others come to mind here. I have been amazed by some of these mics, which can almost be compared to some of the better brand of mics on the market. Surely easily malleable enough to fool some by using a nice tube preamp. Surely enough for real voodooo - if adjusted properly with the right gear - IMO...

An EV RE-20 is too bass heavy for my taste. Yeah; taste comes into it. But there is a point where my tastes might not be what someone else might call 'nice!'. To be brutally honest, the one can make it sound more like a commercial broadcast station is best accomplished by using the same gear they do. Not so easy to afford though - eh? The right low-cost condenser makes it easier to do and easier on the pocketbook at the same time.

TO sound right with those dynamic mics can be done; a friend of mine has and uses one (RE-20). But given a choice between an RE-20 or a Shure SM-7b against a Neumann or a sound-alike; I'll take the condenser. Extremely natural sounding and easier to equalize. We are dealing with 10-4khz at best; having that flat response makes it so much easier to get it right . Add 4-6db's @ 40hz 1 octave wide, cut 400-600hz 3-4db's 1/2 octave wide, and then add 2-4db's @ 2.4khz 1/2 octave wide before the IF filter shuts it off...works for me...

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Post by XLAXX » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:46 am

Some good points here.
I am curious as to what you mean by flat respone? This term seems to be used quite extensively on this website. Does it mean that a given mic adds a neutral sound quality across the entire human ear frequency spectrum?,... and also what we cannot hear?

The EV RE-20 as compared to the EV RE-27 seems to me, to have a lower frequency response in the dynamic world of things. Would the condenser mic add the higher end without the background noise?, I'm not sure. IMO, operators go with the RE-20 because it has the bass sound that most broadcast stations are looking for/want.

Would you agree that the basis of the 'VooDoo' sound is more bass (lower frequency) in the sound one hears? Isn't 'that', what 'it' is all about? I mean really, check out the EX3200. That unit alone screams bass with some additional effects on the side,...maybe a splash of higher brilliance here or there, but the bass is what characterizes the VooDoo sound, right?

2 cents only,... be gentle.

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Post by Voodoo Guru » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:02 pm

Hmmmm....the true essence of 'Voodoo'...
Would you agree that the basis of the 'VooDoo' sound is more bass (lower frequency) in the sound one hears? Isn't 'that', what 'it' is all about? I mean really, check out the EX3200. That unit alone screams bass with some additional effects on the side,...maybe a splash of higher brilliance here or there, but the bass is what characterizes the VooDoo sound, right?
No.
The basis of the 'Voodoo' sound is to get the Richness, Fullness, and most important the Resonance that you hear in real life into the audio, NOT just simply adding bass.

Adding the bass frequencies is an important part of it, but you have to do that IN BALANCE with the Bandwidth Spectrum that you are using. If you use too much, you will overpower the high frequencies. If you don't use enough, then you sound thin and emasculated (ball-less).

The 'Voodoo' part of it comes into play when you try to introduce that 3 dimensional effect into the audio. Your trying to get the Resonance and Richness into the mix. Most audio sounds 2 dimensional, there is just no life to it, no body, its just there....dead. By adding Harmonix whether it be by even order distortion from the high plate voltage tubage, or by other electronic means, the audio is made Alive, its 'Fatter', it turns Liquid.

THIS is the basis of 'Voodoo'.

The EX3200 does this in a different way. It electronically adds low frequency Harmonix, but the Surround Circuitry in the EX3200 actually inserts these Harmonix 'in between' Harmonix using phasing. This is what makes the Mix so damn FAT with this unit.
You have to be careful with the balance on this device as well, You just can't crank up the controls and make it happen. Your voice has to have something down there to begin with to make it work.


I am curious as to what you mean by flat respone? This term seems to be used quite extensively on this website. Does it mean that a given mic adds a neutral sound quality across the entire human ear frequency spectrum?,... and also what we cannot hear?
'Flat Response' means the actual frequency response of the microphone is 'FLAT' from whatever the -3dB low frequency roll off of the mic is to the -3dB of its high frequency roll off. This is measured with no sound pressure interfering with the measurement, like background noise or someone talking.

Hope that helps.
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